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Author Topic: So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?  (Read 10142 times)

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Alianore DeClare

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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« on: Oct 16, 04, 11:11:22 am CDT »

So what DO you think? Is marriage still necessary in Today's World? I don't speak just of the United States, or of other developed countries, but, in a global sense as well. This may be regarded as a 'first installment' on marriage and its relevance. My personal views will come later, as I am, once again, out of time and have to get to work.

Historically and Sociologically, marriage has been necessary for many reasons, some of which still have meaning today, even with the advances which women have made with regard to their past standing as chattel. It was once, necessary to the survival of the species.

IF the vows of marriage are adhered to, there are many historical benefits attributed to it -
Freedom from STD's
Men know without a doubt that they are the father of any children, and may safely distribute property to them upon death, thereby ensuring that their family, and its name, will survive.
Women have a secure, protected, stable place in which to bear and raise children.

Are these still true today?
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #1 on: Oct 16, 04, 08:42:35 pm CDT »

well i say yes. if for nothing else than to just be right.
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 17, 04, 09:47:24 pm CDT »

I can't help but believe that if it weren't for the stupid marriage penalies, more couples would get married, rather than just live together.
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 17, 04, 09:53:44 pm CDT »

I like the 'sex whenever i feel like' factor....  hehe.


EDIT: I mean 'whenever SHE feels like' factor..
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Veldrina

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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 18, 04, 08:11:25 am CDT »

I think we should define marriage first, considering that now there's the question re gay marriage & how Bush & followers believes that it threatens the institution of marriage.  Do u believe marriage is like George Carlin describes, a "business partnership where there's a product" (kids), or just a way for a cpl to express their feelings?
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #5 on: Oct 18, 04, 08:32:16 am CDT »

In this day and age of divorce an litigation, the "marriage" as a sacrament idea has gone. Is there any reason to get married if there is not going to be a product of that marriage (kids)? I don't think so. Why? there's too much to lose (all financial) and nothing to gain.

Divorce is something like 50% now.

With divorce laws as they are, many women get the alimony after divorce. even if they make the same or more money and there's no kids? in that, marriage is at best a 50/50 gamble and if you lose (as a man) you're pretty much fucked.

So what are the reasons we get married? Simple... Business. Shared bills. Shared costs of living and investments. Shared medical benefits. Think about why there are pre-nuptual agreements... Simple, it's just business Honey.

Love? Sure. But do you need to sign a paper to love someone? Do you need to sign a paper to be faithful? Do you need to sign a paper to show your devotion to each other... No...

So, is marriage necessary? In certain circles yes. For certain reasons, of course. But make no illusions about love and fidelity. Marriage has become a business institution... So sign that Pre-Nup...
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 18, 04, 09:29:50 am CDT »

I thought the main reason to get married anymore was to shut all your friends up about "When are you two getting married?  You look so happy together...  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah:: gonna have kids  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah:: Chevrolet  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah:: porno star  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah:: and then he  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah::  ::blahblah:: ..."  and so on.
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 18, 04, 02:01:01 pm CDT »

is it nessasary... no... it's a ceremony... it's not a demanded thing.  it is a sentimental thing that has gotten wrapped up with financial and social mores and acceptance.

so nessasary?  No...

Course as someone who got engaged... I can say it is my CHOICE!
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 18, 04, 02:33:21 pm CDT »

In the beginning I would've said it was necessary, as a show of devotion and security, that it was a way that someone was declaring their intent to me in a public, symbolic gesture (that requires a blood test and lots of paperwork, but, you know, aside from that crap... :roll: ).

Now I would say no. Not necessary. In fact, I, personally, am of thejaded camp that says getting married is just an excuse to have a large party, and honestly, siding with Dmitri that it's more of a business proposition. That person will up and leave you or cheat on you if it's in their heart, and no legal paperwork will change it.
So the security thing is shot, the being sure of your heir thing is shot.

Of course, I'm sure my opinion will change as soon as I meet some wonderful guy who doesn't mention pre-nup when talking about getting hitched (my ex mentioned it twice before we did.  :x  )
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 18, 04, 02:36:45 pm CDT »

Quote from: "Dragonfly"
Of course, I'm sure my opinion will change as soon as I meet some wonderful guy who doesn't mention pre-nup when talking about getting hitched (my ex mentioned it twice before we did.  :x  )


That's the great thing about having NOTHING. Girl wants a pre-nup? Sure thing Baby!
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Dragonfly

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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 18, 04, 02:48:29 pm CDT »

Quote from: "Pathos"
That's the great thing about having NOTHING. Girl wants a pre-nup? Sure thing Baby!


Yeah, what's the quote? "I went in with nothing and have most if it left" ??
That's about how it goes!  :D
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Savoir Faire

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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #11 on: Oct 18, 04, 05:45:41 pm CDT »


Religion and social doctrines dictate its necessary.
I wanted to get married...(obviously so did she)
Am i big on ceremonyand the like anymore? NO not really...
would i do it again.. no once is plenty!!!
besides i am not mormon and am allowed only one and believe me one wife is plenty!!!

now i think i answered this right.. i'll know tonight.. either alianore will come over and hit me in the head.. or susie will hit me with my cast iron frying pan.. either way i lose... i think... or maybe they expect this answer and i am ok...

tune in and see next time.. same bat time same bat channel..
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #12 on: Oct 18, 04, 06:45:53 pm CDT »

Marriage  or wedding?

I believe in marriage, but not the ceremony associated with it.  A joining can more than symbolic, what ceremony is done . . . if any, is irellavent(sp) but if your makingthe commitment of hearts to each other thier are two reason why SOME ceremony should be done

Finacnical joining can be beneficial . . . taxes etc

Rights upon death, or severe disability is the other.  I have been close to people who , tho they spent thier life for the past number of years together, they had no ability to carry out the wishes of the deceased, and the family that was to have no part took over raped the estate dishonored the persons memory and left thier partner with nothing
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #13 on: Oct 19, 04, 01:46:04 am CDT »

Being a disabled vet, I began making more money as soon as I married PirateRogue. He also qualifies for benefits as my spouse. He gets a huge break on his taxes as my income in non-taxable.

The number one reason we got married was so if somehting happened to the other, we would have a say in what happened, and not our parents or other relatives. Being told in the emergency room that being his 'girlfriend' or 'partner' was not good enough and his mother had to be listed as the contact person, no matter what he said, scared the daylights out of us.

Now, would we still have gotten married if it were not for the 'extras"? Yes. We actually plan on having more ceremonies (have had 2 so far). We like the committment and being married. It honestly did feel different as soon as we were legal.
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Veldrina

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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #14 on: Oct 19, 04, 08:04:27 am CDT »

Yeah, that's one of the perks VA offers, nontaxable income.  That  office supplies :D  Want some??
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #15 on: Oct 19, 04, 08:24:24 am CDT »

Quote from: "Veldrina"
Yeah, that's one of the perks VA offers, nontaxable income.  That  office supplies :D  Want some??


yup that and crummy doctors!!! LOL  :wink:
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #16 on: Oct 19, 04, 09:13:43 am CDT »

Hey, we hire only the best of the worst!  What'dya expect from a gov't that goes with the lowest bidders on everything?   :?
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #17 on: Oct 19, 04, 09:26:11 am CDT »

LOLOLOL!!!!! :lol:
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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #18 on: Oct 20, 04, 04:34:28 pm CDT »

Sorry to thread-jack back to the origonal topic..

Sort of..

I know that if i were to get married i would do a pre-nup. Why? well .. long story but in short.. there are things i might have/get that i need to protect. Also i would want to protect my interests as well at my intended.  

I look at  it as a will of sorts. ...    a little bit of post mortum security for the people left behind...

I do not think of marriage as purely a business contract but  i see  how it looks that way..
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Alianore DeClare

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So What Do you Think? Marriage - Neccessary or No?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 28, 04, 12:50:02 pm CST »

BUMP!
Hello again :o [gasp! she's baaaack!]
I've finally gotten back to this thread, All Apologies for starting something and then letting it hang.
Everyone's replies have been very interesting, and thought-provoking. I was most fascinated by the concept of marriage as a product-producing proposition, as well as the reply which mentioned gay marriage in relation to our definition of marriage.
I think that marriage is a committment which can be made by any two individuals who care enough about each other to want to make that level of committment. Period. Love is the most basic emotion we possess. No one knows how love works, or why we love the people we do, so telling someone not to love a person simply because of their gender seems ridiculous to me, as is telling them they cannot act upon that love in the same manner as everyone else, through marriage if they so desire. So for the purposes of this discussion, as well as in real life(at least it should be), the concept of marriage is all-inclusive.
Now as for marriage with the purpose of producing the product of children. What happens if either party is incapable of producing children? Does that then make the marriage a failure, since its express purpose is a product which can not now be produced? Or say, the product might be to get rich together - what if that doesn't happen? Or if it does happen, what if the stock market crashes and you lose it all? Should we place our hopes for a successful marriage on tangible assets?
What then of the two people who began the venture and are now back to square one? Is there not value in the basic relationship/emotions (ie., intangibles) which brought them together in the first place? Is there anything within that core beginning which can stand on its own, without the necessity of a tangible end result?
And what of people who don't want children, have never wanted children, but who want to be married? Or even gay couples, who cannot procreate in the same manner as heterosexuals (I do hope I am not being offensive here. I don't mean to be.) Or how about the two old people who get married? What's in it for them?
I just think that there is a basic, inherent need in humans of both genders, to band together for whatever reason - protection, fellowship, commerce, etc. - and that marriage, is just taking it a step further. Rather than a group banding together, individuals within the group also pair off, for much the same practical reasons, but on a different level of emotional intimacy and intensity. In short, I don't think we can help ourselves from wanting to be with someone, especially during our biologically fertile years. I think alot of it has to do with hormones. Yes, I do.....
Another comment which I thought was interesting was that which stated that the sacramental aspect of marriage is dead, as evidenced by the massive divorce rate in this country.
I, myself, was married in church, under the eyes of God, 'til death do us part. I am also divorced. Now my ex-husband has remarried (civilly, not in the church - he never applied for an 'annulment'), but I never will. Partly because I see no need for it at this point in my life (I most definitely will not be producing any more products :twisted: ), and partly because I still take that vow very seriously. No, I don't believe I will burn in Hell - I'm not Catholic, though my ex is, and we were married in the Catholic church. It is hard to explain why I adhere to the promise I made, but I do, and it has to do with my personal relationship with the Deity, but for one person, at least, the sacramental aspect is not dead.

However, in all honesty I must qualify that, because there is always the question of what I might have done had I NOT already had children with my now-ex-husband. As I wanted children very much, I just might have been able to overcome my scruples enough to remarry in the hopes of having children, with the thought that their best interest was to at least start out in an intact family.....so who knows. Different circumstances might have yielded different results.

An aside to Savoir Faire - And no, Savoir Faire, I'm not gonna smack ya in the head. I'll just leave a 20 minute message on your voicemail :twisted:  :twisted: Seriously you guys are alright. You've had ALOT on your plate lately, and I admire the way in which you and Susie are handling things, and the kids. I can't imagine the stress you two are under! Hang in there!
Off to work again. Only 4 more days to vacation! Ye are all warned.....
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